tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post7697347353838456046..comments2023-10-31T05:14:06.482-07:00Comments on Bourbon, Bastards, and Birds.: Americanish Oystercatchers: Hybrids vs. FrazariSeagull Stevehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01851438505719552645noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-12546047011629910352019-01-30T16:26:31.394-08:002019-01-30T16:26:31.394-08:00An alternate to the Jehl Scale: galileobirds.com/...An alternate to the Jehl Scale: galileobirds.com/oystercatchers.htmlAndrew Howehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08761371730991642402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-34609047403022245132014-10-17T13:18:24.172-07:002014-10-17T13:18:24.172-07:00ohhhhhh burnohhhhhh burnSeagull Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851438505719552645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-50639314979543831362014-10-17T13:14:02.108-07:002014-10-17T13:14:02.108-07:00Jehl never says in his 1985 paper that they are co...Jehl never says in his 1985 paper that they are color morphs of a single species. As a matter of fact, his concluding paragraph states <br /><br />"It appears that the distribution of oystercatcher phenotypes on the Pacific coast of Baja California existed in a stable condition at the turn of the century and that in most localities the pied and black forms acted as separate species. At San Roque/ Asuncion and on the mainland coast south to Cabo San Lucas, however, the small populations may have been interbreeding freely. The situation was disrupted by intensive collecting, but local populations have since become reestablished at or near their original composition. From this I conclude that selection promoting the presence or absence of a particular phenotype at a specific location is strong. The resumption of the original condition, and the demonstration of a high frequency <br />of assortative mating in current (and, by inference, in original) populations, as well as of a low frequency of hybrids in both original and current populations show that bachmani and palliatus are independent evolutionary units and must be considered as specifically distinct." Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275824975876930420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-89862553729909940292013-07-01T07:37:09.655-07:002013-07-01T07:37:09.655-07:00Glad to be of service Laura. Hope you had a great ...Glad to be of service Laura. Hope you had a great trip! This weather has been ridic lately.Seagull Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851438505719552645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-79212413818401927652013-06-30T11:14:58.640-07:002013-06-30T11:14:58.640-07:00Thanks for this. I spotted a hybrid from the Isl...Thanks for this. I spotted a hybrid from the Island Packers boat in the harbor yesterdayhad no familiarity with their occurrence in Ventura. I have seen Black Oystercatchers in LA and SLO coastal area so was unprepared for the hybrids in Ventura. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16225894238368830354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-55672407300543925742013-06-17T07:59:06.821-07:002013-06-17T07:59:06.821-07:00COI=?
What paper is this Mark? Not a shocking fin...COI=?<br /><br />What paper is this Mark? Not a shocking finding, although off the bat I don't know if I agree with it. <br /><br />The high-ranking birder known as Red Phalarope Man poo-poos the use of DNA barcodes as an accurate method of gauging genetic divergence in birds. Thoughts?Seagull Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851438505719552645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-73010924091111753602013-06-17T01:46:37.046-07:002013-06-17T01:46:37.046-07:00A 2004 paper says: The close COI similarity of Ame...A 2004 paper says: The close COI similarity of American and Black Oystercatchers revealed in this study is consistent with suggestions that these are allopatrically distributed color morphs of a single species (Jehl 1985). Identification of Birds through DNA Barcodes.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09730434737788181011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-25723195720565040482013-06-13T13:14:44.594-07:002013-06-13T13:14:44.594-07:00The Jehl paper is available here if you know anyon...The Jehl paper is available <a href="http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/40168300?uid=3739696&uid=2134&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102099640113" rel="nofollow">here</a> if you know anyone with university/library/AOU access.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-29812487095609840492013-06-12T17:47:23.936-07:002013-06-12T17:47:23.936-07:00Although a lot of hybrid combos are possible, not ...Although a lot of hybrid combos are possible, not many are actually very common once you leave the realm of gulls. I could bird for a month straight and not see more than one or two non-gull hybrids...but they are out there.Seagull Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851438505719552645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-87409997673566608512013-06-12T17:23:08.522-07:002013-06-12T17:23:08.522-07:00Thanks for the info. I will try and find and actua...Thanks for the info. I will try and find and actually read this elusive Jehl paper. <br /><br />First rule of genetic: When in doubt always backcross to wild-type, although I am not sure which one is WT in this situation. Unless the hybrids are sterile (doubtful in my mind, but maybe the answer is already known) then backcrosses have to be out there just messing with the birding world.<br /><br />That being said, reading your blog has taught me the very important lesson of being more conservative when calling birds. We just don't get hybridization like this in the reptile (and mammalian for that matter) world. Reptiles also don't travel the distances that birds do looking for a mate, which I can imagine limits their ability to hybridize in the wild.JKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16614141904786915153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-62896284781281741602013-06-12T15:07:33.894-07:002013-06-12T15:07:33.894-07:00It is a headache. I reckon people should assume a ...It is a headache. I reckon people should assume a black and white oystercatcher here is a hybrid, and if warranted could then try to convince themselves otherwise (its usually the other way around).Seagull Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851438505719552645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-56866539876274610242013-06-12T15:05:59.421-07:002013-06-12T15:05:59.421-07:00Oh yeah. Your bird 4 theory is certainly possible....Oh yeah. Your bird 4 theory is certainly possible...I think backcrosses are definitely out there.<br /><br />Mate selection of hybrids is not well-studied, although the elusive Jehl paper likely addresses it. Since most of these birds seem to breeding in Mexico, there aren't many people observing what happens during the breeding season.<br /><br />Roberson (paraphrasing Jehl I assume) says that Blacks and Americans used to occur along western Baja together and did not interbreed; it was only after these birds were wiped out and new colonizers arrived (of both species) that rampant interbreeding began; this was a result of a lack of potential mates of the same species.Seagull Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851438505719552645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-67312707512683804532013-06-12T13:17:20.799-07:002013-06-12T13:17:20.799-07:00My students have their genetics final today so thi...My students have their genetics final today so this got me thinking ...<br /><br />So it seems like it may be easyish to figure out an American X Black where one parent is pure for each species, but then what happens when that 50:50 bird mates. Could bird 4 be a hybrid that mated with an American giving a 75%American:25%Black? And it is easy to imagine it can get way more complicated that that.<br /><br />Is there anything known about mate choice in hybrids? Are they sluts that will just mate with any species that comes by looking for some action or do hybrids prefer to mate to Americans more than Blacks? Is there any sexual bias in this? JKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16614141904786915153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172285466289881050.post-77700694251319192732013-06-12T11:22:00.715-07:002013-06-12T11:22:00.715-07:00Until today I had never heard of frazari, I guess ...Until today I had never heard of frazari, I guess that is because I haven' photographed Oystercatchers (of any species) in California and now I realize that if I do I might get a headache trying to figure them all out. <br /><br />Thanks for the education Seagull.Mia McPhersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613385411156245829noreply@blogger.com